Monday, 28 January 2013

Time to stop talking about Gay "marriage"

Mary O'Regan of The Path Less Taken blog has a post offering great insight into the life and mission of the Archbishop of San Francisco, His Grace, Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone.

It is always heartening to read more and more of the strong men and women of the Faith who are clear in their orthodoxy and who have a distinct perspective regarding the Ordinary and the Extraordinary Form of Mass Mass as the Archbishop says, when speaking of the Latin Mass:

"With that form of Mass you can hear the Church breathing through the centuries"

The Archbishop also points out that we should limit the usage of the phrase "gay marriage" in case we endow it with a permanence it does not command. I'm searching a blank mind for a descriptive phrase that does the task without mentioning marriage......any suggestions (polite ones, that is?)

The post is an excellent one, not only for the good news that it carries but also for its clarity and insight. Read and enjoy on The Path Less Taken.


  1. I know this doesn't quite do the job, but I quite like 'nu-marriage', which at least gets the point over that this is about completely reinventing the institution.

    As you suggest, there are obvious (unbloggable) alternatives...

  2. Very happy to read this from the Archbishop. I can only respectfully add that we should all, all of us, stop using the word "gay" to describe a sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance. By using that word we are already conceding ground to these people, and showing weakness in the bargain.

    Never use the enemy's own terms to describe them. The word "gay" was cleverly chosen to befog the truth of the matter.

    1. Aged parent,

      Being homosexual is most certainly not "...a sin which cries to Heaven for vengeance." Indeed, the Catechism (2358) clearly teaches that homosexuals "...are to be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided". Of the sexual orientation, the Catechism (2357) states that "The psychological genesis remains largely unexplained".

      It is not homosexuality which is sinful but the acting out of this orientation in a sexual context which is regarded as being a sin - as indeed are all non-martial sexual acts.

      And please desist from referring to homosexuals as "these people"; these "people" are your brothers and sisters in Christ, children of God, temples of the Holy Spirit. Sinners, yes, but so are you and so am I. On reading your expression "these people", I shuddered. Today (28th) is Holocaust Memorial Day and "these people" was how Hitler referred to the Jews..

      I respectfully suggest that you pray over the Catechism's requirement to treat homosexuals with "respect, compassion and sensitivity".

    2. Dang. I can almost taste the venom in your comment.

    3. Oh paripedmos. The above comment is meant for the aged parent person. Not you. Oops.

    4. parepidemos,

      Perhaps, as you say, "being homosexual is most certainly not '...a sin which cries to Heaven for vengeance'" but Aged Parent is also most certainly correct that the act itself IS a sin which cries to Heaven for vengeance. In fact, there are four such sins, and if you had a solid grounding in the Faith you would know this.

      Do a little'll do you good. While you're at it, you might also wish to (re?)acquaint yourself with the "Four Last Things."

      Besides, Aged Parent very clearly is speaking about the vileness of the sin and does not mention or otherwise include SSA in the description. YOU are the one who does that, either through carelss erading or a deliberate twisting of his words, the better with which to hang him.

      Mhairi, there is no venom in Aged Parent's comment - not a drop. Yours is the classic shift used by homosexualists and the Left in general to accuse others of hate because we have the courage to say things that YOU hate. TRUTH to homosexualists and their allies is like sunlight to vampires.

    5. bleusmon - Let's see: parepidmos quotes directly from the catechism. Twice. In context. You don't. That indicates quite a bit of knowledge about the Faith yet you say to do research. The chastising of Aged parent is done respectfully. You don't when criticizing parepidmos. She speaks of the respect, sensitivity and compassion demanded by the catechism. You don't. You focus on the sexual act rather the person. You also draw an artificial distinction between being homosexual and being gay. In society the 2 words are interchangeable.

      And Aged parent does NOT clearly indicate that he is talking about the act rather than the person. Parepidmos does.

      I'm not going to respond to the contemptuous comment you make about me hating the truth and being left wing (Nope. Didn't vote for Obama either time. But your words made my spouse laugh out loud) but you need to stop making up words such as 'homosexualist'. It doesn't exist. As for accusing you of hate - those are you words. I follow the teachings of Holy Mother Church. When it comes to homosexuality the Church says the act is sinful but homosexuals are to be treated with respect and compassion. I agree. Do you - on both counts? I also checked the catechism after reading earlier comments and it does say that unjust discrimination against homosexuals is not acceptable. Do you agree with this particular statement of Holy Mother Church? I do.

    6. Mhairi,

      Thank you for your rather spirited defence. I am quite humbled. However, I usually find it fruitless to attempt conversation with those whose comments contain any shred of personal insult as their minds tend to be made up. For example, I notice that you request of bleusmon an unequivocal acceptance of two statements from the Catechism and in his response he avoids such a declaration preferring conjecture regarding a group of professionals.

      Secondly, in your request about where the Church teaches that homosexuality is an illness, he accurately says the Church regards the orientation as objectively disordered - but then make the leap to this being an illness, something which the Church does not do. The Church does, however, state that the "psychological genesis remains largely unexplained".

      Having said this, one must always, I believe, presume that the other person is acting out of sincerity.

    7. Mhairi:

      327. Which are the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance?

      The four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are:
      1. Wilful murder (Gen. 4)
      2. The sin of Sodom (Gen. 18)
      3. Oppression of the poor (Exod. 2)
      4. Defrauding labourers of their wages (James 5)

      See also

  3. Never use the enemy's own terms to describe them. The word "gay" was cleverly chosen to befog the truth of the matter.

    I have to agree NEVER use the opponent's terms. It gives them credibility. I prefer same-sex unions. Rather than say he/she is homosexual (connotes an identity) say he/she suffers from same-sex attraction (connotes an illness).

    1. Where does Holy Mother Church teach that being homosexual is an illness? The only folk that spout that nonsense are the colorful Protestant evangelists on US tv. I was going to say something about treating homosexuals with kindness but someone else had done that already. Teach what Holy Mother Church teaches and nothing else.

    2. Mhairi,

      Perhaps you'll better recognize the term "disordered" to describe homosexuality, which can also be seen as an illness. Indeed, modern psychiatry did so until a convention in the 70s where, after a lot of back-room dealing and arm-twisting, these "professionals" - without a shred of new research to justify themselves - voted to re-classify homosexuality as normal. Pure politics.

      I fully concur with the notion that SSA is an emotional illness, and I say that without contradicting Holy Mother Church one bit.

    3. Holy Mother Church teaches that the homsexual condition is objectively disordered, while insisting that this alone does not connote sinfulness on the part of those burdened with it,through no fault of their own.
      Regarding the comments directed at Aged Parent, I am not sure what the complaint is. She objected to the word "gay", which is not the same as condemning those with SSM. The Catholic group Courage, for those with SSM, advocates exactly the same practice. The word "gay" referes to a chosed lifestyle, not subjective affectations.

  4. Last comment should have referenced SSA(same sex-atrraction), not SSM.
    Note that CCC sec. 2358, cited above by Parepidemos, contains language which he did not quote, clearly referencing that the inclination to SSA, " objectively disordered." The view of our Faith would seem to be that this condition, while not normal, naturual, or healthy, is not to be a cause for injustice against those laboring with it.

  5. Dear Richard,

    Thank you so much for linking and doing a post on my interview with Abp. Cordileone. You are so kind in showcasing the posts of other bloggers and may God reward you.

    Abp. Cordileone is a true gentleman and is one of the most intelligent people that I have ever met. When you meet him, you are struck that he has such strength of character and is such a tranquil, peaceful priest. It's a rare combination of traits, such strength and gentleness. It's a sign of the success of Benedict's reign that Cordileone is at the helm in San Francisco.

    With Warmest Wishes to you and your readers,


  6. Sexual relations between two persons of the same sex. Intrinsically immoral behaviour, the desire for which is disordered. Such relations and relationships based on them have nothing to do with marriage. Any law which purports to recognise such relationships and confer a status on them is necessarily invalid for irrationality, injustice, being injurious to the common good. Any such law is necessarily an attack on marriage, which is a natural (as well as supernatural) phenomenon and the only sexual relationship that is good and necessary for the individual and society. As said by others, never adopt the false terminology and phraseology of the propaganda for promoting or normalising evil, such as sexual relations between two persons of the same sex or the killing of children in their mothers' wombs.

  7. A minority of homosexuals suffer a true disorder. A majority engage in this sin by choice and too deny they are being sinful. It is presently crazy zeitgeist. I won't go long here which I surely could. Yes absolutely stop using the terms they have insiduosly and you see,successfully put into use. Begin now not saying -gay-. And instead of traditional, say natural marriage. These people are sucking our children into believing this IS a variety of NORMAL.And most are not suffering but feeling somehow smug and superior.

    1. I'd be reluctant to start arguing statistics without having some numbers to back me up. Do you have anything to point to, or is this just a suspicion you have?

  8. I hope all who could filled out the card passed out at the parishes on Sunday. As our good priest said, if the law changes to allow so-called civil marriage for g and ls, this will effect us all in the culture-grandparents, parents, children.

    I am truly grieved that this government is pushing something which does not have the mandate of the people. So much for democracy in Britain......and who is pushing this? What minority? What confusion and chaos will result, and with persecution...

  9. I'm in my 60's, and have been SSA for as long as I can remember.
    As a boy and now a man, I have never accepted that it is a variety of "normal," neither have I ever chosen it for myself. It is, instead, the specific cross the Lord has permitted me to carry.

    By His grace, I have been celibate, and that has grown a bit "easier" as I have aged.

    There is no doubt in my mind that this orientation is seriously disordered.

    One person here remarked that only a small percent of SSA people have emotional disorders. I do not agree, based on my own experience, what I have read and studied, and the men who have been in various groups—psychological and spiritual—with me. After years of therapy for a wide range of emotional illnesses which probably arose from my childhood years, I have been encouraged to pursue looking at the deepest causes, which appear to be lack of attachment to parents and consequent gender confusion, shame, and withdrawal. My continuing therapy with a Christian psychologist may never "turn" me into an OSA person, but I look forward to being, in my own eyes at least, more of a MAN. That is how God made me, and I want to give Him honor and glory by living out His gift to me of masculinity and holy manhood.

    But to get back to my point: I have never self-identified as either gay or homosexual, and abhor such a lifestyle. It is morally, physically, and emotionally disastrous. Having read widely on the causes and behaviors of SSA, I conclude that there are no truly happy, "active" SSA people.

    Finally, one writer here said that we are to look at all SSA people, including rabid, public proponents, as our brothers and sisters in Christ and temples of the Holy Spirit. But this cannot be true for the SSA person who deliberately acts out or supports (even privately) such behavior. First, many do not deem themselves Christian to begin with. And if they do, the Holy Spirit has left His temple when they commit or advocate such sins. Since it is He Who unites us with Christ, we are no longer the brothers and sisters of the Lord, nor even of one another. Sin disrupts all unity. (As for children of God, I suppose you could say that God continues to be in each mortal sinner's life only by the fact that He is upholding it, not permitting him or her to dissolve into nothingness.)

    Yes, be loving and compassionate with all SSA persons. Show us patience and kindness. Also show us the Truth and the Way to get back to Life with God.

    1. I think that the terms "false marriage" and "fraudulent marriage" might be useful. These terms include marriage between those of the same sex, as well as marriages between heterosexuals that are bogus from the beginning (refusal to have children, refusal to live a non-adulterous life, etc.)
      The difference is that the latter (the false forms of heterosexual marriage)are forms of deception from the beginning, and are hard to detect and stop. The formerly mentioned "false marriages" (same-sex) seek
      recognition and blessings upon their iniquities, which include one of the sins that cries out to God for vengeance. How about "Same-sex False Marriage" as opposed to just "False Marriage"?

    2. God bless you! I admire anyone who is tempted to sin and resists.

  10. Anonymous @ 3.37pm - thank you for your excellent comment. I can align myself with what you say and I respect you for shouldering the cross.
    Supertradmum - with you all the way.
    Thank you Fr Larry and all others, you seem to be getting on with the debate very well without my interference.
    And finally, thank you Mary, God bless.

  11. Another term that might be useful is "Mock-marriages". we used to have them in our high school. "Same-sex mock marriages" .

  12. Homosexual wedding will certainly become legal in the U.K because we who oppose are meek. Whereas those for are militant. Many people are being fooled by many lies. Didn't Jesus tell us to be wise as a serpent?

  13. to Anonymous with SSA, I am short on patience with this SS Rights Juggernaut as Aged Parent calls it. You Anon have reminded me that some persons are truly sincere and humble as we all need to be. You seem to me a person very worthy of love. I'm sure everyone here welcomes you here.

  14. ..bleusmon states correctly as to how homosexuality was changed from disorder to normal. BEGIN in the academy... And to Howard, " be careful in stating statistics ". There are no real studies at this time. Who are studies and statistics rendered by ? Don,t expect any true statistics anytime soon. Presently homosexuality is Over-represented. The only honestly approached academic study to date was at a university in Texas. The professor was subsequently dishonestly discredited. ..And Aged Parent is right in calling it a Juggernaut. Really you would almost think it's something in the water.