That line is taken from a post currently circulating.
The subject of the post is the disgraceful attack on the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and the author opines that the time to choose between what she neatly dubs "Novusordoism" and "The Faith of our Fathers" is upon us.
To me, the only constant source in the Church that meets the description of "Faith of our Fathers" is the SSPX, ever steady as a rock.
As the nearest SSPX Church is about 160 miles from where I live, and, as we have a good priest who sees to our EF Mass needs within 65 miles or so, I am not inclined to jump - just yet!
What events would need to take place for Mrs L and myself to head for the SSPX fold?
Well, I do not claim to have any inside knowledge or, certainly, no special knowledge that allows me to see into the future, but, it does not take too much of an imagination to ponder on what the 'ungodly' may do ere long.
My fear, and it is just that, at present, is that the next move will be against the Fraternal Society of St Peter and its priests.
After all, if the FFIs are having to swear an oath of fealty to the Novus Ordo, it can't be too long before the FSSP will be pushed towards the same cliff edge.
Certainly, the time is drawing near when priests and religious, whether in an order or secular, will have to face up to an oath of modernism, if Hilary White is correct in her assumption.
Priests such as Fr Thwaites RIP and Fr Lessiter refused to obey their bishops long, long ago.
They chose obedience to God over obedience to their bishop and, when you assess the quality of the bishops, there is no doubt that they made the right choice.
The words "Come follow Me" could take on a rather more poignant aspect in the near future.
PLEASE NOTE: I fear I upset Hilary White by misinterpreting her words and I have amended the above post accordingly and apologise unreservedly to HJMW.
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To me, the only constant source in the Church that meets the description of "Faith of our Fathers" is the SSPX, ever steady as a rock.
As the nearest SSPX Church is about 160 miles from where I live, and, as we have a good priest who sees to our EF Mass needs within 65 miles or so, I am not inclined to jump - just yet!
What events would need to take place for Mrs L and myself to head for the SSPX fold?
Well, I do not claim to have any inside knowledge or, certainly, no special knowledge that allows me to see into the future, but, it does not take too much of an imagination to ponder on what the 'ungodly' may do ere long.
My fear, and it is just that, at present, is that the next move will be against the Fraternal Society of St Peter and its priests.
After all, if the FFIs are having to swear an oath of fealty to the Novus Ordo, it can't be too long before the FSSP will be pushed towards the same cliff edge.
Certainly, the time is drawing near when priests and religious, whether in an order or secular, will have to face up to an oath of modernism, if Hilary White is correct in her assumption.
Priests such as Fr Thwaites RIP and Fr Lessiter refused to obey their bishops long, long ago.
They chose obedience to God over obedience to their bishop and, when you assess the quality of the bishops, there is no doubt that they made the right choice.
The words "Come follow Me" could take on a rather more poignant aspect in the near future.
PLEASE NOTE: I fear I upset Hilary White by misinterpreting her words and I have amended the above post accordingly and apologise unreservedly to HJMW.
Sorry, but I think your response here (and that of others) is way over the top.
ReplyDeleteIn what way, Father? I do appreciate your genuine concern but would be pleased if you could mention some specifics.
DeleteWith all best wishes for Advent, and the coming Christmas season...
People are too quick to "understand" the Pope. he has wrong-footed the Media more than once. The really sad thing is that so many Catholics (both "traditional" and "liberal") are missing the message and seem to be nervously misreading him. Instead of trusting the Holy Spirit, they are almost denying that the Spirit is working through the Pope....Why? Because the Pope is not saying what they want to hear, but what if he is saying what God wants us to hear? Some people are too quick to judge, and in spite of the mistakes already made in misreading him or being too superficial in their listening, many Catholics are still doing it. I am deeply concerned for the unity of the Church with this seeming polorization being generated from both sides of a divide that is unnecessary and damaging. I even saw representatives of "Una Voce" saying, "we know we don't have a saint on the Papal throne"....What? Where is all this leading? To Christ? To Unity? To holiness? No, no and no!
DeleteTrue, Father, no one wants to here the law of non-contradiction violated, or vague and offensive statements that have even caught people like Michael Novak, the Pope Emeritus off guard.
DeleteFather, I did not mention the Pope in my post. There are other groups at work within the Vatican who appear to be in the process of de-constructing the orthodox elements of the Faith.
DeleteThere are many abuses in today's Church (look at Austria and Germany) and yet these abuses go unchecked while the FFI have the full force of modernism set upon them. I don't think that I am the one who is "way over the top".
I've been trying to keep up with this madness and it most certainly is bad. The letter that Pope Francis wrote to the FSSP on their anniversary is nothing short of ominous. A 'Get with the program' message. My wife and I are walking the middle road right now, one foot in our TLM Mass and one in the SSPX, which we have, thank God, here in Connecticut. We all have some serious decisions to make.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the article issue, it is something i am pondering just these days, thank you for posting it.
ReplyDeleteno sspx in my area, though.
"Priestly fraternity"
ReplyDeleteI agree with Hilary.
Let’s not panic.
ReplyDeleteYes there is a growing realisation that the Church is drifting into two divisions, the Church in Continuity, on the one hand, and a loose faction of Relativists, (they reject absolute meaning ), Neo- Protestants, ( we can decide for ourselves what to believe), and of course, the Don’t Knows' ( the ignorant, confused and badly educated of the last 50 years).
This has been described by one commentator as the Church and the Anti – Church.
Personally I do not think that an attack will develope on the FSSP or the other Traditional Orders. No one could be so, what’s the word, let’s just say, lacking in judgement.
I have commented elsewhere that over the next 20 years the rapid decline of priests due to age, on the one hand and the steady growth of the traditional orders on the other, will decide the issue in any case.
It may be, too, that the pressure on the FSSP doesn't come exclusively from Rome, but from newly-liberated bishops who feel free to make similar demands as a condition of remaining in their dioceses. Like others, we are straddling the FSSP and SSPX these days, about 50-50. I'm pleased with the new tone of the SSPX leadership. They seem to be positioning themselves as a more palatable lifeboat for the tidal wave of orthodox Catholics who may possibly be headed their way under Pope Francis.
ReplyDeleteO.K. Can someone tell me what is wrong with this?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-applauds-priestly-fraternity-of-st.-peters-loyalty-to-rome/
The FSSP has already had its fight, and it was decided that the priests could say what is now the Ordinary Form on special occasions or for pastoral needs (like in their church in Minneapolis, Minnesota) as they are Roman Rite priests. This sets up Summorum Pontificum, in my opinion. Now, could it happen again? Perhaps, but it's a waste of time. The FSSP is relatively small, although growing nicely and healthy. The FI is massive on the other hand and worth going after because it is thriving in the light of Tradition continuity visibly shown by a deep attachment from some to the older liturgical rites.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the oath is heretical, certainly, but that doesn't mean that the Novus Ordo is "authentic." Perhaps the good news lies in the wavering definition of "authentic." Either it is completely Roman or completely organic, making it authentic, or since it is valid, licit, and Roman in structure and in much of its content, it is authentic but inorganic. (I am not sure of a both/and definition...) That means one could take it without any worries and continue to describe the NO as a "banal, on-the spot product" as Joseph Ratzinger did with a mighty preference for the usus antiquior. Let us pray for a peaceful resolution and that schism does not pass for anybody. Where the Church is, Peter is.
It pays to read and listen to more than one interpreter of the mind of Pope Benedict - and perhaps, even, to look at what the Pope has actually said...as Pope;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=684
We would be fools not to be concerned about access to the traditional Mass, sacraments and doctrine in the future, as well as the preservation of what remains of our Catholic culture for generations to come. The faithful priests and orders offering the traditional liturgy are our lifeline to the sustenance that the Church provided as a matter of course until the collapse of recent decades. Francis has wasted no time in expressing his contempt and moving against anything that resembles pre-Vatican II Catholicism. This man's pontificate is a punishment. I was reading Bl. Catherina Emmerich's account of the Passion at the time of his election (this has been my Passiontide reading for some years now). The bit about the demolition of the Church by those within is particularly troubling since this person seems committed to the demolition of Catholicism as we've known it for centuries (I use the plural because Catholics are tribal "we" people). I thank God for the SSPX, even though I have to remind myself that it is not all that remains of the Church.
ReplyDeleteThis pope has gone out of his way to scandalize the Faithful. No retractions, no apologies. He should recall that little warning the Lord gave about a millstone and a cliff.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Thank God for the SSPX. Our chapel is 90 miles away but we still manage to get there once a month and even more often during the holy days.
Oh man, is that EVER not what I said, and not, in a zillion years, what I meant.
ReplyDeleteThe sides are there, but they're emphatically not between novusordoism and the SSPX.
Hilary JMW, I apologise for misinterpretation of your post and will amend my post to make your definition distinct.
DeleteHowever, the point I was making is that it looks likely that the modern Church and what you call the Faith of our Fathers are developing to a stage where a choice will have to be made. That clearly means to me that the SSPX is the only representation in any depth of The Faith of our Fathers.
This was reinforced, in my mind, by the following passage from your post:
"But Benedict, as much as we loved him, was making the same mistake as the rest of the Church, (and I think in the end he understood this). The new papacy is teaching us the same old rule of Christianity: you have t pick a side eventually".
The sides are between Novusordoism (the new paradigm of official modernism) and the Faith of our Fathers.
ReplyDeletepay attention.
*chuckle*
DeleteTony said: 'This pope has gone out of his way to scandalize the Faithful. No retractions, no apologies. He should recall that little warning the Lord gave about a millstone and a cliff.' In a nutshell.
ReplyDeleteWhat hat does God want us to hear? First of all, if the Pope is possessed by the Holy Spirit the moon really is made of green cheese. The Holy Ghost doesn't get things wrong. God may have permitted another kind of the spirit to speak through the Pope, but not the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost cannot contradict Himself, Francis has contradicted numerous Church teachings and Popes and then had to have damage control come in and say that he did not really say what he said. I trust God, I don't trust this Pope - he speaketh with forked tongue. I believe his agenda is to try to scandalize the faithful to apostasy. Yes, my view of him is THAT cynical - because he's building a new church and the faithful flock are not members - so far if there would be a pope who would sell St Peters to the moslems to make a big mosque, it wouldn't shock if this Bishop of Rome did it. Is this all hyperbole? Think back over the past nine months. If at the beginning of the year someone had joke that the next Pope will refuse the shoes of the blood of the martyrs, will refuse the Papal apartments, will pray for the blessing of muslims over ramdam, say, 'who am I to judge' when it comes to the most deadly sins, would reign over the decimation of a flourishing Fraternity deeply rooted in the blessed history of the Good and Great saving Church, etc, etc. Would anyone have believed it?
Good summary.
Delete"They came first for the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I said nothing ..."
ReplyDeleteWhat this post illustrates is the tragic ongoing crisis in the church. I made the decision a long time ago to support the SSPX because they do represent "The Faith of Our Fathers". I am fortunate that there is a church within 20 miles. There are seven catholic churches where I live, three of those within a two mile radius but sadly the "Faith of Our Fathers" is not to be found within any of them. This scenario is repeated throughout the country and many people have no choice but to travel some distance for the TLM. If we are going to have to choose a side then remember who created this situation in the first place. It was not the SSPX or the two brave priests mentioned in your post nor those of us who simply wish to practice the faith as it always has been. My fear is that pressure may be applied to those priest who currently celebrate both rites which would result in a decline in the number of TLMs. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
ReplyDeleteThank you all.
ReplyDeleteRod, you are absolutely right. We have been here before I think. God help us all.
While I am blessed with Sacred Heart of Jesus Parish in Grand Rapids, MI, The SSPX have a chapel less than 30 minutes away if anything crazy happens. Such a brutal propaganda campaign has been waged against the SSPX (and the TLM in general) that I always assumed the worst of the SSPX even though I had no specific understanding of the situation at that time. While I have no desire to leave my EF parish, as a married 34 yr old w/ 5 kids, I find myself so attached to the Latin Mass that I would never accept a substitute!
ReplyDeleteHi, your photo at the top of the article isn't a monastery,that's the Bishops Palace at St Davids, under the care of Cadw.
ReplyDeleteAnon, yes, many thanks, I am aware, I live only a few miles from it. But it suffered under the Dissolution programme and I used it in that context.
Delete