Wednesday, 12 February 2014

When is a Novus Ordo Mass invalid?

When it's a dance routine Mass?

Or, maybe when it's a Jazz Mass?

Of course, it's got to be when it's a Clown Mass, no?

OK, then it's the folk dance in silly outfits Mass

Ah, it's just got to be the plain and simple, informal Mass

Surely it can't be 'the Bishop looks silly' one?
Technically speaking, all of the above count as valid Masses.
 But in the spirit rather than the letter of the law I cannot believe that this is the case.
Would Almighty God allow His divine Son to be ridiculed in this manner?
See also the post on the NO by that great priest, Fr Peter Carota

Pictures from:

Rorate Caeli
Tradition in Action
Unam Sanctam Catholicam
The one true Catholic Church


  1. There was a time when I would regularly have to ask myself if the Mass was valid. Yes, all those blasphemous Masses are valid BUT illicit! I would sometimes call my spiritual father and he would calm me down and ask, okay, what is needed for the Mass to be valid. Proper matter and form for consecration, properly ordained I would listen close to the words of consecration and if they were not proper, I have been known to get up and leave because there is no Eucharist. But it is terribly hard to endure illicit Masses. I live in a better place now but when a retired priest shows up and makes the Mass his own show, that is a pain to my heart.

  2. Presuming a priest has valid (catholic) orders then the validity or otherwise depends on matter, form and intention ( i.e intending to do what the church does). So a mass could, although sacriligeous and even blasphemous be valid. If the priest does not believe in transubstantiation or that the mass is a scacrifice is it still valid? Perhaps somebody could answer this question.
    Whatever the answer it is better to avoid these type of masses and if at all possible avoid the novus ordo altogether.

  3. These people will answer to God for what they've done, making a mockery out of His Holy Church.


  4. I think the matter of intent, as raised by Rod George, is key.

    If the priest does not believe in the Real Presence, for example, then the Mass is illicit, invalid, but more importantly, it simply does not take place as with, for instance, a Lutheran or Church of England ceremony.

    This could be quite a common occurence. A recent poll showed that up to 80% of "Catholics" in the USof A did not believe in the Real Presence. What the position is in the UK we do not know but it is probably over 50%.

    Now the figure for priests will probably be lower, but lets not kid ourselves, given the widespread existence of Relativism within the clergy, it won't be zero!

  5. Priests who had the requisite intent could not dishonour God in such a flagrant manner.

  6. Silly folk costumes belong to Basque Americans and are in honor of St Ignatius, their patron saint. I've been to it once in Boise ID, home of the largest groups of Basques out of Spain.

  7. Steven, thank you for your interest. I am sure that the costumes would not be regarded as silly in the town square or on stage.
    But, on the sanctuary at Holy Mass they are, indeed, silly.