There are a lot of comments flying around at present regarding labels and sniping at people's appearances...some of it is good, some of it is not.
It is not good manners, for example, to criticise a person's hairstyle and dress code.
But, it may be (just maybe) fine to satirise them in a non personal manner.
Well, at least, I hope that is the case.
For example, we have many good deacons and some distinctly dodgy ones; I quite like to lampoon the dodgy ones but I would never individually criticise their dress sense (apart from the shell suits, that is).
But, it is certainly not edifying for men, especially, to be snarky about a woman's appearance.
And to make an ultra personal point of highlighting a person's weight goes far, far beyond the realms of common courtesy and good manners.
It is, in fact, gross bad manners showing a distinct lack of breeding.
That is why, I am finally laying claim to the label of being an 'orthodox Catholic' (of the Roman Rite).
Ten years ago you never heard the word 'orthodox' being used, we were all either modernists or traditionalists then.
Both sides have an ugly facet to them; one that is at odds with the teachings of Our Blessed Lord.
But orthodoxy has no such emotional baggage (as yet) and that is why I am now in this camp.
I do not wish to be associated with individual viewpoints, or, indeed, the operational actions of any particular organisation that solely avows 'Tradition' as its raison d'etre.
Sadly, we do have to be labelled; we are either Conservative or Labour, Black or White, Jewish or Catholic, Modernist or...... Orthodox.
Traditionalism has shot itself in the foot too many times.
It is now on the World Wildlife Fund's 'species threatened with extinction' list.
And the sooner it becomes extinct, the better.
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| "O God, I thank Thee I am not like other men (and am well dressed and slim)" |
It is not good manners, for example, to criticise a person's hairstyle and dress code.
But, it may be (just maybe) fine to satirise them in a non personal manner.
Well, at least, I hope that is the case.
For example, we have many good deacons and some distinctly dodgy ones; I quite like to lampoon the dodgy ones but I would never individually criticise their dress sense (apart from the shell suits, that is).
But, it is certainly not edifying for men, especially, to be snarky about a woman's appearance.
And to make an ultra personal point of highlighting a person's weight goes far, far beyond the realms of common courtesy and good manners.
It is, in fact, gross bad manners showing a distinct lack of breeding.
That is why, I am finally laying claim to the label of being an 'orthodox Catholic' (of the Roman Rite).
Ten years ago you never heard the word 'orthodox' being used, we were all either modernists or traditionalists then.
Both sides have an ugly facet to them; one that is at odds with the teachings of Our Blessed Lord.
But orthodoxy has no such emotional baggage (as yet) and that is why I am now in this camp.
I do not wish to be associated with individual viewpoints, or, indeed, the operational actions of any particular organisation that solely avows 'Tradition' as its raison d'etre.
Sadly, we do have to be labelled; we are either Conservative or Labour, Black or White, Jewish or Catholic, Modernist or...... Orthodox.
Traditionalism has shot itself in the foot too many times.
It is now on the World Wildlife Fund's 'species threatened with extinction' list.
And the sooner it becomes extinct, the better.
I did some studying at a well known faithful Catholic university in the USA. There they had a phrase which has stuck with me- some Catholics are orthodox and obnoxious! Our whole raison d'etre is to be true faithful disiples of Jesus Christ, who by both our words and actions seek to bring others to Him, through His Church. My spiritual director has taught me to dump the labels, there are only two categories : obedient and disobedient. And within that obedient frmaework there are a variety of ways of experssing living our faith, through the new movements, religious orders etc i.e we can be obedient and disobedient traditionals, charismatics, etc etc. As true disciples we are called to love, God, our neighbour and our enemies.This display of rudeness and bad manners has no place in our evangelising initiative. The words expressed reveal much more about the one who utters them than the person criticised.
ReplyDeleteMarianne - well that's a new take on orthodox.....bit judgemental maybe? Labelling people like that? God bless.
ReplyDeleteNo no Richard, sorry I perhaps wrote that the wrong way. What they meant was the point of being orthodox is to be both faithful to the Church's teachings and full of charity so that we attract people to Christ and into the Church - "See how these Christians love one another". If we are orthodox which of course we are called to be then we should not be 'obnoxious' with it. I was certainly not implying that orthodox equates with obnoxious. Orthodox is not a label, it should be the very nature of our faith Forgive me if I offended again by not expressing myself well. In my first post I was actually trying to agree with you. God Bless.
ReplyDeleteSorry Marianne, lost in translation......understand now, my apologies. Richard
ReplyDeleteThanks Richard. Keep up the good work, I enjoy your blog. God Bless
ReplyDeleteI read somewhere that in days gone past ,you were either a catholic or a heretic!Changed times!I would say that to be truly orthodox it would be impossible to be obnoxious,and if you are, then you cannot be orthodox.Being orthodox to me means following and loving the Gospels and practising and believing the the teachings of the church.And yes to Evangelisation.
ReplyDeleteI definitely think that the traditionalist tag has to be replaced with orthodoxy, because at the end of the day traditionalists are always derided for aestheticism. However, the word orthodoxy does exactly what it says on the tin,
ReplyDeleteThere is one bad draw back to the orthodoxy tag and it is often amplified on the blogs (mine included). The tag does give a sense that those who follow orthodoxy are perfect and never sin ("we're all perfect Christians you know") and this can give the feeling that orthodoxy is too big of an obstacle to climb and hence is not appealing, because it is quite simply too hard.
The bottom line is that I am as big a sinner as the next person. We all fail at being perfect. Orthodoxy is really about believing that the Church is correct in its teaching (without exception), even if we cannot always get it right as individuals.
Fr. Ray stated the following in the past on his blog concerning the new breed of Catholics e.g. the Bones etc and I think it is spot on an is extremely appealing to some Catholics.......
He said.....
There is a growing faithfulness to our Saviour Jesus Christ, and to the Magisterium of His Catholic Church...
...which is about winning back the One True Church for every Catholic and for all those on the outside who are presently searching for the Truth!
It promotes TRUE Catholicism
It embraces ALL our Traditions.
It is fervent in that it embraces a vigorous defence of the Catholic Faith, pro-life issues, Humanae Vitae, families, marriage, and places catechesis and evangelism back at the centre of the mission of the Catholic Church.
Hunger for a Catholic identity and living the faith in line with Church teaching is at its very core.
It is about supporting our faithful Pope, Benedict XVI
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ReplyDeleteLet's just insist on being known as Catholics. Let the modernists qualify their Catholicism if they wish.
ReplyDeleteVery well said, Richard. No more "traditional" for me too. Good comment Ora Pro Nobis.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of the song: "Gimme that old-fashioned religion". I suppose that makes me a traditionalist.
ReplyDeleteWithout Tradition there can be no orthodoxy. It's not a matter of camps but being true to the whole Deposit of Faith. Each of us is responsible for his own sins.
ReplyDelete"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned..."
ReplyDeleteI'll stick with Traditionalist, thank you.
Those who can't stand the heat, shouldn't cast the first stone, to mix metaphors.
What is a "shell suit?"
ReplyDelete- Mack in Texas
Hello Mack in Texas. I was going to ask the same question.
DeleteMy preference is that we refer to ourselves as Catholic and the Bishops excommunicate the obstinate heretics.
ReplyDeleteBut, since God has seen fit to give us mostly weak and ineffectual leaders during this time of crisis, we need qualifiers just to communicate well with each other.
As for me, I'll stick with Traditionalist.
Mack, it is a polyester trouser and blouson type top with normally two wide strips of white running down either leg, much loved by men of a certain age in this country. Not good.
ReplyDeleteI see it in my minds eye. Not good.
DeleteI find more and more Catholics are growing tired of the continuing 'nonsense' in the Church and have simply stopped going to Mass and pick and choose what they'' accept and believe from the Church. In too many cases the Church has lost her creditability. Our bishops are a perfect example!
ReplyDeleteWell, I am quite new to the Traditionalist circles but I'm not sure there's anything wrong in labeling oneself 'Traditional'. I would never call myself a 'Traditionalist' because I think the average person who uses this label is far more knowledgeable than me but I feel fine calling myself 'Traditional' because this can apply to all parts of life, not just one's faith and I think this label is a good fit for me because I appreciate traditional manners, architecture and so on...
ReplyDeleteI see what you are saying about Traditionalists having shot themselves in the foot but I don't think it's a lost cause. Some do lose sight of the real goal and become rather pedantic but many do not and still use this label.
A priest told me off the other day because we were discussing the Pater Noster and my friend dobbed me in by saying that I had forgotten 4 words of it while I was trying to teach it to him (I'll deal with him later! :p). I said that I was not very good at being traditional (or maybe I said "a traditionalist", I don't remember) and he told me that I needn't bother and should just concentrate on being a Catholic. I felt quite ashamed when he said this to me (he is a huge champion of the old mass by the way...orthodox as can be etc etc) because I felt guilty of what you have described above (though I *know* I am not traditional for the sake of it - I have felt this way long enough to have got to that point anyway), however, those who stand by the traditional mass need *something* to describe themselves. There are many people who are orthodox Catholics and who push charismatic masses. We must be allowed some way of differentiating ourselves from them for the sake of promoting the old mass! For my part, it is not snobbery, it's just for the sake of convenience.
*I have not felt this way long enough
ReplyDeleteGreat post. Try:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.catholic.com/blog/patrick-coffin/meet-the-mad-trads
May shed some additional light.
Patrick, an excellent post, made good reading.
ReplyDeleteRhoslyn....there is nothing wrong in following the course you have indicated. My grouse is with rather extreme traditionalists who complain incessantly and do more harm than good.
ReplyDeleteThere is, perhaps a need to re-label ourselves, sadly, 'Catholic' is no longer enough.
In America the word "orthodox" is usually linked with Judaism as in "He's an orthodox Jew". Orthodox Jews are sticklers for following a multitude of rules, many of them revolving around their diet. Other rules include married women shaving their heads and wearing wigs and also people not being allowed to drive or even turn on a light switch during the Sabbath. For that reason, the term "orthodox Catholic" probably confuses many non-Catholics over here. I don't mean to knock the phrase "orthodox Catholic" because I think it's a good one; but I do think it's a term that involves a learning curve for most people.
ReplyDeleteIf I say I"m an Orthodox Catholic people in my neck of the woods would think it means I'm Greek or Russian.
ReplyDeleteI used to listen to Catholic Answers when I was coming back to the Faith. I found them and EWTN very helpful to me. It's a shame they're now attempting to divide the few number of people who actually go to Mass each week. Who cares what kind of Mass one attends, so long as you go. I guess we'll see where we are 10 years from now after the new evangelization.
ReplyDeleteLynne, well I care a great deal about the sort of Mass I attend. I have an aversion to inclusive language, greeters, EMHCs, lack of reverence and communion standing and in the hand.
ReplyDeleteThat rule out most OF Masses for me.
Dymphna and Annie, the word is what it says. It may not be familiar but it does the job.
I agree that there is room for confusion with the Greek and Russian Churches but people will son learn. God bless.
I am an orthodox Roman Catholic. Problem solved.
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