I speak, of course, as a Latin Mass lover myself. But, there is much more to traditionalism than just the Latin; equally, one can be traditionalist as an OF Mass goer.
Uh? Is this man contradicting himself? I do not believe so, read on and find out.
Here are ten outward signs of a traditionalist Catholic (leaving aside the all important magisterium, doctrinal and sacramental beliefs).
1. Attends Masses that are celebrated ad orientum
2. Is quiet and reverential in church
3. Only receives Holy Communion kneeling (if possible), by mouth and from a
priest
4. Always addresses a priest using the 'Father' prefix (unless he is your
brother).
5. Observes the abstinence from meat rule on Fridays (even though it is not yet
obligatory).
6. Makes a three hour fast before receiving Holy Communion.
7. Prefers plainchant to "Shine, Jesus shine" type hymns
8. Attends Benediction whenever possible
9. Avoids Masses where guitars are played, altar girls present or the liturgy
distorted in any way.
10. Welcomes the new translation.
This is not meant to be an exhaustive list......
 |
| One picture is worth a thousand words.... |
Now there has been some comment floating around about bloggers voicing facts instead of opinions. Well, I mean for all of my posts to be my opinions within a framework of the teachings of the Catholic Church. For example, it is not 'wrong' to receive Our Lord at Communion, standing and by hand. But it is irreverent and crass to do so. That's my opinion, it just happens to be the same as the Holy Father's!
I think you are watering the term down beyond recognition.
ReplyDeleteThe only definition that is both broad enough and specific enough to still be meaningful is: anyone who is attached to the Traditional Latin Mass.
David Werling - so you exclude the Holy Father?
ReplyDeleteAnd doesn't spend the first 10 minutes of the Mass rustling plastic bags.
ReplyDeleteBrompton Oratory celebrates the NO beautifully and with much quiet reverence. Which just goes to show . . . .
Unfortunately, this seems to be a rarity at large. The pp at a once-conservative (not traddie) parish has ditched the old hymn book and is introducing more and more 1970s gathering-type hymns which nobody knows, so the only voice you hear is his.
There was one such recently during the collection. I can't remember all the words - probably drowned out by the gnashing of teeth (mine) - but there was some sort of line about "we bring you bread" at which point the priest raised the host towards the congregation, repeating the action with the chalice at "we bring you wine".
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Genty - I don't know how you stick it!
ReplyDeleteRichard,
ReplyDeletelet's hope and pray that the Universal Church returns back to True Catholic Tradition, especially in England and Wales;this weekend sees the introduction of The New Missal
What does ad orientum mean?
ReplyDeleteNot too long ago, my dad leaned over and whispered, "the altar boy is wearing heels." The alter server was a girl.
Lena - it means that the priest faces 'East' ie with his back to the people and facing God in the tabernacle (rather than turning his back on Him as happens in many OF Masses. He faces 'East' (maybe not always correct re a compass) because, traditionally, this is the direction of the Second Coming of Christ.
ReplyDeleteMr Collins, As an Eastern Rite Catholic (not Orthodox) I’d like to offer a lighthearted response to your 10 points for being a traditional Catholic. Not sure if we’ll pass.
ReplyDelete1.This has always been our tradition
2.This is a tough one because we don’t mind kids wandering around in church before the Divine Liturgy. We’re reverential but not always quiet
3.Kneeling: never. In the mouth: well we always receive by intinction so there’s no alternative. By a priest: we also use deacons. BTW I’ve never understood why some Latin Rite Catholics oppose Communion from the chalice
4.Of course and “Father” is often followed by the priest’s Christian name. I’ve 2 priest cousins and we call them “Father--- ” but only when in public
5.Only on Fridays? You Latin lot are wimps
6.Only 3 hours? As I said in #5…
7.We don’t do plainchaint, but what’s wrong with Jesus shining? He is resurrected, ascended and glorified after all
8.We don’t do Benediction. With respect to our Latin brethren, Benediction doesn’t make much sense to us
9.We don’t use guitars but then we don’t use organs either. Pity. I like organs. Altar girls are a cute idea but we have only boys…but then we don’t allow just anyone pass through the iconostasis…not even men
10.New translation? Oh you must mean using English in the Divine Liturgy (lol). We’ve done that for many years as that’s the language most Ukrainians speak outside of our homeland (ok, I’ll fess up…I really don’t speak any)
I’d like to add a point of my own:
11. Restoring the ancient tradition - including in the Latin Church - of clergy electing their bishop and having that choice affirmed (not approved) by the Bishop of Rome as a sign of unity. Ouch. I bet that’ll ruffle a few feathers with some. Have a nice day.
Hi Chris. Thanks for your lighthearted comments.
ReplyDeleteI'll try and respond just as lightheartedly.
We like children in church also and if that means under fives making noise and running around a bit, fine. I was really aiming my comment at adults.
Receiving Holy Communion. Ahem...this could be a long debate but I'll keep it short by stating that kneeling is desirable in the Catholic Church.
We agree on 4.
And on 5.
And on 6? I am old enough to remember the 12 hour fast rule (and the fainting bodies that were carried out if you attended a 12 noon Mass). Good sense makes us fast but not faint.
You don't do Plainchant - you lose out!
Benediction? You lose out again. A great way to worship Almighty God.
9. OK......I can live with that.
10. What do you do in China...or Japan....or in The Gambia? Do they speak the Ukrainian tongue there? Latin was universal (like the Catholic Church)- as a second best, English is the second most widely used language in the world.
11. Sounds like socialism to me....Peter's successor is our man (and God's).
мир Richard
Richard.
ReplyDeleteThe way both the British/Universal church seems to be going as well as to this country is now losing its Christian identity and moral values; maybe it's time for another Fr Peyton type of Rosary Crusade: maybe for a start: A Bloggers Rosary Crusade on a Friday! Any for it?
God Bless/Cheers.
Michael.
Don’t tempt me to respond in kind. I’m in a liturgical Bermuda Triangle with 3 churches, all within 25-mins walking distance (vital for a non-driver given the Sunday bus service) . Church no. 1 has the tape of the clapping Gloria with Father jigging around; church no. 2 is suffering liturgical death by a thousand cuts; church no. 3 would have been eyebrow-raising had I not experienced the other two. I try to get to the 8.30am Mass there.
ReplyDeleteA wise Oratorian once advised me to get to the earliest Mass possible because the priest would be too sleepy for liturgical hanky-panky.
Circumstances forced me to church no. 1 last evening where, apparently, the new translation is a foreign country, to witness a female EMHC boss a puzzled young visiting priest into leaving the sanctuary and shaking hands with the (thankfully) small congregation. It got rather worse at the end (that’s enough horror stories for one day, Ed).
I got to wondering why all these ladies seem to sport not very good Princess Diana haircuts. Can’t wait to get back to London . . . . . .
Genty, as you know, even London is poorly served when it comes to EF Masses...more letters to the Vatican etc etc.
ReplyDeleteRichard
Oh, I totally agree, especially with regard to the Cathedral. In the centre, one is left with the Oratory or Maiden Lane.
ReplyDeleteI don't insist on the EF. The NO as celebrated at the 11.0am Mass at the Oratory is a pretty good deal.
I'm thinking, perhaps, of a little note to the Nuncio.
Genty - and Spanish Place at 9.30am on a Sunday.
ReplyDeleteAh, yes, also one of the prettiest churches in London and a fine priest as rector, Fr Christopher Colvin. He crossed the Tiber during those unwelcoming years and was like a breath of fresh air at the Cathedral.
ReplyDeleteI think St. Etheldreda's has more or less given up the ghost?
Still, my old haunt The Bleeding Heart round the corner is going great guns.
Anonymous - I have deleted your comment as I find it offensive. Don't interrogate me!
ReplyDeleteBut, to give you an answer, the Holy Father has stipulated that, within the Vatican, the Eucharist is to be given on the tongue only as far as the laity is concerned.
He practices what he preaches at every Mass he celebrates, you may not have noticed the picture on this post.
Nil by hand is the order of the day.