The question is purely rhetorical; I have no evidence to suggest that EF Masses have either increased or decreased under Pope Francis but, I have suspicions.
Those suspicions are based on feedback (so they are strictly anecdotal in evidence terms) from liberal Catholics who gush and spout about how humble the new Holy Father is and how he just hates all that ritual and grandeur (by which they mean the orthodox liturgy) and how he has cut through all that liturgical lace (by which they mean that he has reverted back to the dreary old Novus Ordo format of poncho vestments with modern motifs).
I do not know many liberal priests but, my guess is that they are saying much the same sort of things; most of the bishops will also be singing off the same hymn sheet, no doubt.
There is a sort of air of despondency in some circles and only an occasional straw from Rome for traditionally minded Catholics to clutch at.
But, how goes the fight in England and Wales?
Are Latin Masses still plodding forward, brick by brick in Fr Z fashion or, are they retreating into pre 2007 oblivion?
I do not know if the Latin Mass Society has done the sums on this one as yet but my feeling is that orthodox priests are, once more, on the back foot and that any growth in EF Mass numbers has died the death and may, even be decreasing.
Yet the shouts from the seminaries seem to state the opposite - so what's to worry about, this could be a temporary glitch that will right itself in 5 or 6 years time.
Possibly.
But we all know what happens next, do we not?
A young priest, about to assume control in his first parish, meets with his Bishop for the first time since he was ordained a few weeks previously.
And the Bishop gives him the chat; nothing too direct, just a few menacing words based upon the following:
1. "I would remind you of your obedience to me (forget about Rome Sonny, this is where it all happens")
2. "Remember, you have a good parish in St Apathetic's, please do nothing to upset this calm and offend the parishioners (if you do I can promise you a public humiliation in front of your flock")
3. "Now you are a employee of the Diocese, of course all of your pension rights and retirement plans will be looked after by me and my successors (step out of line by getting all latiney and I'll chop off your superannuation tout suite")
4. "Remember, I want none of this EF Mass nonsense (celebrate just one Mass and I'll have you transferred to the Convent of the Sisters of the Blue Cardigan where you will be on call as chaplain to five major hospitals, 23 nursing homes, the League of Charismatic Nutters and a committee member of the ecumenical group forging links with the local Freemasonry Lodge")
5. Now kneel my son while I give you my blessing (and if you so much as make a move towards kissing my ring you're toast!")
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| "Brick by brick" Does that mean more or less? |
Those suspicions are based on feedback (so they are strictly anecdotal in evidence terms) from liberal Catholics who gush and spout about how humble the new Holy Father is and how he just hates all that ritual and grandeur (by which they mean the orthodox liturgy) and how he has cut through all that liturgical lace (by which they mean that he has reverted back to the dreary old Novus Ordo format of poncho vestments with modern motifs).
I do not know many liberal priests but, my guess is that they are saying much the same sort of things; most of the bishops will also be singing off the same hymn sheet, no doubt.
There is a sort of air of despondency in some circles and only an occasional straw from Rome for traditionally minded Catholics to clutch at.
But, how goes the fight in England and Wales?
Are Latin Masses still plodding forward, brick by brick in Fr Z fashion or, are they retreating into pre 2007 oblivion?
I do not know if the Latin Mass Society has done the sums on this one as yet but my feeling is that orthodox priests are, once more, on the back foot and that any growth in EF Mass numbers has died the death and may, even be decreasing.
Yet the shouts from the seminaries seem to state the opposite - so what's to worry about, this could be a temporary glitch that will right itself in 5 or 6 years time.
Possibly.
But we all know what happens next, do we not?
A young priest, about to assume control in his first parish, meets with his Bishop for the first time since he was ordained a few weeks previously.
And the Bishop gives him the chat; nothing too direct, just a few menacing words based upon the following:
1. "I would remind you of your obedience to me (forget about Rome Sonny, this is where it all happens")
2. "Remember, you have a good parish in St Apathetic's, please do nothing to upset this calm and offend the parishioners (if you do I can promise you a public humiliation in front of your flock")
3. "Now you are a employee of the Diocese, of course all of your pension rights and retirement plans will be looked after by me and my successors (step out of line by getting all latiney and I'll chop off your superannuation tout suite")
4. "Remember, I want none of this EF Mass nonsense (celebrate just one Mass and I'll have you transferred to the Convent of the Sisters of the Blue Cardigan where you will be on call as chaplain to five major hospitals, 23 nursing homes, the League of Charismatic Nutters and a committee member of the ecumenical group forging links with the local Freemasonry Lodge")
5. Now kneel my son while I give you my blessing (and if you so much as make a move towards kissing my ring you're toast!")
A couple of sundays ago during the homily,I was shocked to hear an attack on the Latin Mass.It was full of untruths.Nobody seemed to turn a hair...except me.I have never heard such words before,even in this "We are Church" parish.I was sort of angry at first,but on thinking about it for several days,I came to the conclusion that there is a threat.A threat that is coming closer and positions have to be defended.I think the seed has been planted ,and by God's good grace will grow.At least,as I read on "Orwells picnic",they cannot take orthodoxy and tradition away from us,unless we are prepared to relinquish it.I for one am not.
ReplyDeleteBRAVO we HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER
Deleteand become martyrs if necessary and not be duped by the Evil one.
The Freemasons , Communists, Jews and Protestants are out for our blood yet in their hearts they KNOOW we are rebuking them and we wil WIN the war. Bring out your rosaries and mantillas , holy water and put a malediction on them and let them GO TO HELL
I can give you some good news Richard.
ReplyDeleteOur priest has just given us permission to celebrate the EF Mass at Louth. I have spoken to various people and we now have enough trained priests, servers & singers etc to celebrate the Missa Cantata, but we are going to try and push the boat out and see if we can manage High Solemn Mass. This is initially a one off and we will see how it goes.
I wish I could remember the exact numbers, but there is a Catholic blogger out there who is keeping track of the number of bishops, archbishops, and cardinals who are celebrating the EF Mass. I believe that two years ago there were roughly around 250 and this years there are now 350. So there is some growth.
I do not know the inrernational figures, but for England and Wales, the only bishops to have said the traditional Mass in recent years are:
DeleteBishop Malcolm McMahon,
Bishop John Arnold,
Bishop Sherrington,
Bishop Hopes and
Bishop McGough.
The Westminster Auxiliaries were more or less compelled to learn after the visit of Cardinal Hoyos when the matter was brought to a head by the LMS.
Bishop McGough, when he was newly ordained bishop, responded to a plea from CIEL.
Bishop McMahon is probably the only one who who is enthusiastic.
The Westmi
Ora:
DeleteJust a gentle, cautionary note meant to be helpful. "Permission" is not the word to be using in these matters because you need no permission whatsoever to have the ancient rite. This may seem like a small point but we Catholics need to release ourselves from this subservience-to-episcopal-abuse mode. Working with a priest to find a convenient time to fit such a mass into his schedule is a much better way of looking at it.
Apologies to your good self if this appears to be nit-picking. It is not meant to be. I just fine myself running in to so many Catholics who are so cowed by this 50-year ongoing tragedy thst they feel they need a priest's or a Bishop's permission to do something Catholic. If nothing else Benedict's motu proprio put an end to that grovelling before the priests and Bishops nonsense vis-a-vis getting the old mass said again. We all need to remember that we do, after all, have some rights in the matter.
God bless you and all those who worked to get this beautiful rite going again in your parish.
I have made a study of the number of Sunday Masses (usus antiquior) in England and Wales since 2007 when Summorum Pontificum came into effect. All data taken from LMS listings.
ReplyDeleteImmediately prior to Summorum Pontificum there was an average of 24 or 25 Masses each Sunday. Over the following two years this grew to an average of about 49, at which level it has remained fairly constant.
Two regular Sunday Masses are about to be introduced in the Westminster Diocese, but this gain is being cancelled by the loss of Sunday Masses in Newcastle and Stoke on Trent. This seems the pattern - gai8ns here offset by losses elsewhere.
With regard to newly ordained priests, it is rare for them to be put in charge of a parish for at least five years, so they have little opportunity to introduce the Latin Mass. Also, almost all of them have no knowledge of Latin and so would find it very difficult to learn the older form of the Mass.
Richard,
ReplyDeleteSadly, the TLM at St. Dominic's Priory Church Newcastle- upon -Tyne, which I attend on Sunday is to cease in early July after being celebrated faithfully for the last 23 years! Therefore, from a personal aspect I have to conclude that things are getting worse under this Pontificate, and also under the modernist Episcopate of +H & N! God help us ALL!
Cheers,
Michael.
The Mass at St Dominic's Priory is discontinuing because the priest who normally says it is moving. This decision has been taken by the Dominicans and not by the Bishop of Hexham and Newcastle.
DeleteIt may be that the decision to move Fr Michael Brown back to Gateshead is a direct response by the bishop. Although it is sad that the long established Mass St Dominic's is ending. The good news is that a Sunday Mass will continue to be available in nearby Gateshead.
Hello Michael-did you go to Gateshead last Sunday. I did and met Father Brown. I am hopeful that with enough parishoners going over the river we could make a go of a Missa Cantata there.
DeleteHope I haven't upset anyone(can you disapprove of Missa Cantatas-I just think they are beautiful)Maybe some people prefer the Low Form. But maybe we could alternate. But we need a decent congregation for a LM to be seen to be needed.Bring your friends.
DeleteI agree with your tentative analysis.
ReplyDeleteInteresting article. And, I want to make a nomination for the Guild Leader. Send me your email, as I do not have it, please
ReplyDeleteSTM..it is r.collinsassoc@btinternet.com Thank you. Richard
ReplyDeleteYou, loke many, confuse the"Latin mass" with the Tridentine Latin mass. We need to encourage the Novus Ordo in Latin whilst not disparaging the EF form. You will find the Latin mass every week at Farm Street and a number of other London churches.
ReplyDeleteRobert, there is no confusion. I am of an age when we just had the 'Latin Mass' hence, I refer to the EF Mass as the Latin Mass.
ReplyDeleteThe issue is not just with the choice of EF or OF, whether the OF is in Latin or not.
The issue is with what is said. The content and meaning of the words and format used at Mass.
There is a massive difference between the OF words and the EF ones.
That is why I prefer the more Catholic phraseology and actions of the traditional Latin Mass.
I will live and die a TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC..........
ReplyDeleteI will NOT touch the Sacred Host and only take it from 'CONSECRATED FINGERS"
Where is the letter the Pope wou ld NOT let us see? The TRUTH will set us free.Archbishop Lefebvre and Malachi Martin wer NOT duped...nor will I be.
Satan entered the Vatican years ago but Jesus promised us the gates of Hell will NOT prevail against our beloved Church WE are confirmed to WARRIORS for our Church.......
Let's pray the daily rosary as everything predicted at Fatima Has come true and the bad Popes were too scared tp CONSECRATE RUSSIA to the blessed Mother...
Christ said FEAR NOT the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
I Plan to say daily rosary try to get to Mass and Communion often as possible , obey the 10 Commandments as well as Jesus who said both laws will prevail..SPIT on Satan use plenty HOLY WATER .........and stand strong as you say the daily prayer to ST Michael the Archangel..
Be sure to note that the Baltimore Catechism # 2 has DISAPPEARED. It is unavailable anywhere.........
GOD HELP US!