tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post7830430982677685677..comments2024-03-23T09:59:53.293+00:00Comments on LINEN ON THE HEDGEROW: Since when did a priest die for the OF Mass?Richard Collinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10826907710570316952noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-65059552248947913222012-06-01T17:12:43.036+01:002012-06-01T17:12:43.036+01:00JMJHFPRODUCTIONS ON YOUTUBE: THE KISS OF JUDAS;THE...JMJHFPRODUCTIONS ON YOUTUBE: THE KISS OF JUDAS;THE ENEMY IS WITHIN...Fr. Rodriguez speaks about this perhaps start at 16 minutes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-86223492166185487962012-05-31T10:51:15.775+01:002012-05-31T10:51:15.775+01:00Jackie Parkes,
I am aware, and I am not assuming t...Jackie Parkes,<br />I am aware, and I am not assuming that All those who attend EF do-none of us are perfect,we are All poor mortals God help us All!<br /><br />God Bless,<br /><br />MichaelYE OLDE JARRA SCRIBEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10368297651311397134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-82911953756192652942012-05-31T10:27:00.002+01:002012-05-31T10:27:00.002+01:00What do you think of gay traditionalists Richard?What do you think of gay traditionalists Richard?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-53276938540580431502012-05-31T10:18:59.967+01:002012-05-31T10:18:59.967+01:00I attend the Ef Mass & am NOT a traditionalist...I attend the Ef Mass & am NOT a traditionalist :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-72639285621027700572012-05-31T09:23:08.769+01:002012-05-31T09:23:08.769+01:00Patricius - it was an analogy, not an equation.
Of...Patricius - it was an analogy, not an equation.<br />Of course, I am speaking in general terms, not all Catholics who attend the OF are modernists but all who attend the EF Form are traditionalists - seem to have heard that before somewhere! God bless.Richard Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10826907710570316952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-34418535557884749542012-05-31T07:03:12.060+01:002012-05-31T07:03:12.060+01:00Well said Patricius, I'm glad Richard wrote th...Well said Patricius, I'm glad Richard wrote this terrible post, just in order to hear the truth of matters regarding the different forms and languages the Mass is celebrated (hope that's the right word) in and how they are all valid.shadowlandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00707611566091137431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-16490902130304098312012-05-31T01:27:50.591+01:002012-05-31T01:27:50.591+01:00Richard,
Your fundamental error lies in ...Richard, <br /> Your fundamental error lies in equating the Ordinary Form of the Mass promulgated by the popes following Vatican 2 with the Prayer Book service imposed in England by the government of Edward VI and which clearly rejected Catholic sacramental theology including transubstantiation. To adopt such a position, it seems to me, is tantamount to claiming to be more Catholic than the Pope.<br /><br />There is nothing wrong in preferring one form over another but it is a gross slander to suggest that lay Catholics who attend mass in the ordinary form or priests who celebrate it are all liberals, modernists or other sort of heretic. No doubt some are but they might well have been such had there been no reform of the liturgy. Besides, I have my own temptations and sins to worry about. My business is to avoid such evils and do the best I can. <br /><br />It is also wrong to use the term "Latin Mass" exclusively of the Extraordinary Form. The typical edition of the Roman Missal is in Latin. I have often attended mass in the Ordinary Form in Latin. As for reverence at mass, I agree there are problems with the Ordinary Form where a lot depends upon the attitude of the priest but the vast majority of masses I have attended have been reverent occasions.<br /><br />I have frequently observed that a difference between Protestants and Catholics is that Protestants are people who like "religious services". Staying for a weekend with non-Catholic friends I have returned from mass to be asked "Was it a nice service?" I have struggled to give a not untruthful answer. In absolute honesty I have often felt like saying "Oh no! It was dreadful beyond words...but I could not live without it!" At mass I meet our Blessed Lord, Our Lady and all the angels and saints stand in attendance and I am joined with the whole Church of millions around the world in union with the holy father. I find that mind-blowing. "Nice" just doesn't enter into it.<br />The bottom line for us Catholics, surely, is to try to do what God wants of us- which we do by following a properly informed conscience.Patriciushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08906131174326742939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-49866718391569782432012-05-30T15:03:43.660+01:002012-05-30T15:03:43.660+01:00Interestingly today it is the more "tradition...Interestingly today it is the more "traditional" priests who are married with their children entering the Church..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-48296418172856160932012-05-30T15:00:59.397+01:002012-05-30T15:00:59.397+01:00" struggle against the Novus Ordo "..oh ..." struggle against the Novus Ordo "..oh dear..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-63924433578458308272012-05-30T14:43:47.255+01:002012-05-30T14:43:47.255+01:00Even Bishops who perform EF Confirmations see the ...Even Bishops who perform EF Confirmations see the good in "Catholic" politicians who I wouldn't have personally thought were very good examples..but that's a bit off topic..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-74262908249256582232012-05-30T14:35:20.067+01:002012-05-30T14:35:20.067+01:00I didn't say that all Masses were the same but...I didn't say that all Masses were the same but that Sacrifice is the same. We do NOT receive MORE of Our Lord at the different forms of the Mass. That depends on the state of our soul & you cannot see that from the outside..even a supposed image of piety amongst the faithful may be unrepresentative of the state of grace or otherwise imhoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-61139128437473698262012-05-30T14:31:10.682+01:002012-05-30T14:31:10.682+01:00Be very careful about assuming that those at EF Ma...Be very careful about assuming that those at EF Masses do!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-32632362654623025642012-05-30T14:28:00.228+01:002012-05-30T14:28:00.228+01:00Richard re:
"Of course, all Catholics, by de...Richard re:<br /><br />"Of course, all Catholics, by definition are traditionalists"<br /><br />I refuse to attribute that word to myself...I object to the "ist" & "ism" in "Traditionalist".<br /><br />I would say that all Catholics by definition have a heritage of tradition..even converts & reverts..<br /><br />I really do hear what you are saying Richard re abuses etc but I think by obsessing over the EF Mass which btw I like very much you are alienating people & not helping the Church imho..<br /><br />It really is TOO simplistic to say that a preference for the EF will save the Church..<br /><br />Also be very careful over assuming that those at Old Rite Masses are any holier than the "other" Catholics..we have just seen a Traditional Sacristan arrested over child pornography offences..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-74927050051742938892012-05-30T14:15:32.420+01:002012-05-30T14:15:32.420+01:00Thank you Charlie and also Michael and Jackie.
Jac...Thank you Charlie and also Michael and Jackie.<br />Jackie - all Masses are not the same. I have witnessed countless liturgical abuses at OF Masses and have seen many more online. You do not get such silliness at the Latin Mass.<br />Of course, all Catholics, by definition are traditionalists......the trouble is that the majority refuse to abide by tradition, starting with obedience to the Holy Father.Richard Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10826907710570316952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-50878268540609324972012-05-30T13:49:51.946+01:002012-05-30T13:49:51.946+01:00Btw I really didn't think your Orthodox commen...Btw I really didn't think your Orthodox commentator was "sniping" at Catholics..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-59356014613562431352012-05-30T13:48:23.305+01:002012-05-30T13:48:23.305+01:00The ones I do..do! I just think it's such a sh...The ones I do..do! I just think it's such a shame to have these endless debates about the Form of the Mass - both of which are licit & the SAME Sacrifice whether the Celebrant is worthy or not. Our family are happy at any Mass..we are NOT Traditionalist Catholics simply Catholic!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-29685354182389152562012-05-30T13:42:57.327+01:002012-05-30T13:42:57.327+01:00Jackie Parks,
Thank you for your comment-as I have...Jackie Parks,<br />Thank you for your comment-as I have said there is good and bad in both camps! However, I can assure you not ALL adherents and attendees of the Ordinary Form of Mass adhere to Catholic Tradition- certainly not the ones I associate and come in contact daily with!<br /><br />Michael.YE OLDE JARRA SCRIBEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10368297651311397134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-4198697120343294382012-05-30T13:27:09.688+01:002012-05-30T13:27:09.688+01:00I love to read about modern day Martyrs for the Fa...I love to read about modern day Martyrs for the Faith such as Blessed FATHER JERZY POPIEŁUSZKO,Poland, Fr Ragheed Ganni,Iraq,Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan & countless others who have celebrated the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the Ordinary Form...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-61290878400073042192012-05-30T13:16:26.995+01:002012-05-30T13:16:26.995+01:00Agreed...Agreed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-42642498473931123682012-05-30T13:15:21.821+01:002012-05-30T13:15:21.821+01:00People who attend the Ordinary Form of the Mass ar...People who attend the Ordinary Form of the Mass are adhering to Tradition...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-84868836190268967812012-05-30T13:13:02.922+01:002012-05-30T13:13:02.922+01:00Charlie there are authenticated miracles of the Bl...Charlie there are authenticated miracles of the Blessed Eucharist at Akita & Korea..not at EF Masses...It is the same Sacrifice at ALL Masses...whatever the form..<br /><br />The one at Korea in the 1990's was at an open air Mass in a field..<br /><br />Akita in the 1980's..<br /><br />http://www.theworkofgod.org/Aparitns/Akita.htm<br /><br />http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/Naju/Najuch.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-79190868320708190702012-05-30T13:09:57.791+01:002012-05-30T13:09:57.791+01:00Charlie there are authenticated miracles of the Bl...Charlie there are authenticated miracles of the Blessed Eucharist at Akita & Korea..not at EF Masses...It is the same Sacrifice at ALL Masses...whatever the form..<br /><br />http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/Naju/Najuch.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-87630398087076249482012-05-30T12:37:36.717+01:002012-05-30T12:37:36.717+01:00Richard,
An excellent post and especially, to is ...Richard,<br />An excellent post and especially, to is your secondary explanatory apologetics-I agree with your reasoning entirely! All priests of the Roman Catholic Church are validly ordained-All rites of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which are approved by the Church are valid and licit too! However, it’s my humble that the Novus Ordo Mass- (Ordinary Form) is defective compared to that of the Tridentate Rite-(Extraordinary Form) , as the new rite is open to many abuses, which I have witness over the years-I will not go into details, but it is a fact! <br />There is no doubt that our Blessed Martyrs from the outbreak of both the persecutions at the Henrican Reformation and the Protestant Reformation died for Our Holy Mother the Church-The Catholic Faith in its entirety: the Pope, Magisterium, and the Mass in the various forms and rites, Roman, Sarum etc! They certainty did not die for Cramner’s Communion Table!<br />Yes, there is no doubt that there are many holy, good and hard working priests-here I am very skeptical as to how many would have the courage to die for the True Catholic Faith and The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass-only God knows the answer! Personally I shudder to think when there are priests who won’t touch the Traditional Rite of Mass with a bargepole-who will tolerate their churches and services to be tainted with liturgical abuses; and yet will refuse to allow the Traditional Rite of Mass to be celebrated regularly-this I can attest to! As to the coldness of people etc- you will find good and bad in both camps, however, here I would just add that I have been to the NO Masse where there are people who attend that l have known personally all my life, which at the sign of peace will shake your hand, yet later outside will completely ignore you and treat you with contempt; just because you attend the Traditional Rite of Mass and adhere to Catholic Tradition! <br />Richard I applaud you-God Bless you ALL!<br /><br /><br />Michael.YE OLDE JARRA SCRIBEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10368297651311397134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-51564703229745300502012-05-30T12:34:39.658+01:002012-05-30T12:34:39.658+01:00Hi Richard, I see what you are saying and agree. I...Hi Richard, I see what you are saying and agree. It is interesting that in Joan Carol Cruz's book Eucharistic Miracles, hundreds of scientifically proven miracles are documented, all of which, including the most recent, in 1970, have occurred during the Latin Mass. Also the true faith and its liturgical expression are inseparable. Go figure...<br />CharlieCharlie Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07091587321864006323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3682550116445790117.post-63744836727799639802012-05-30T09:43:08.413+01:002012-05-30T09:43:08.413+01:00To All: Many thanks for your comments: I had not i...To All: Many thanks for your comments: I had not intended to cause such ructions and I apologise if I have caused offence. However, I stand firm on my point and will attempt to answer the critics more clearly.Firstly, though, my profound thanks to Servusmariaen who has provided me with one of the main platforms that I had in mind when I first wrote the post. Of course, the Catholic Faith was the underpinning "reason" why priests and laity were martyred in Reformation times but the Latin Mass became the actuality and the cause. By that I mean that priests were forced to either say a gobbledygook form of the "mass" in the vernacular or, to be outlawed and only celebrate the Latin Mass in secret. For this act they were martyred. When apprehended the fist process began by the pursuivants was to search for the vessels and cloths used in the course of Mass; this was the evidence they needed upon which the priest would be charged. In brief, the Latin Mass became the object of the exercise. Now, let me leap forward to present times. Modern and liberalist priests, who exist in great numbers, are those who deny the primacy of the Holy Father, desire and engineer recognistion of homosexual "marriage", wish for the celibacy of the clergy to be revoked and yearn for women to be ordained as priests. It is these priests whom I believe, would not have the courage to lay down their lives for any Mass, whether it be in Latin, German or Dutch. That is, of course, an assumption, but these are priests who have already allowed the Mass to be distorted and perverted through dancing girls, clown Masses, Giant Bunny liturgies; they have no sense of the sacred as far as the Mass is concerned and they sure as eggs are eggs are not going to die for it. And a note to Anagnostis. You are most welcome to comment but I see little future in sniping at Catholics of the Roman Rite when you come from another line with different disciplines. I would not comment (particularly) on a Greek Orthodox blog or, indeed, on a Syro Malabar one. They have their beliefs just as I, as a Catholic, have mine.<br />And now, yet another apology (they end here, I promise you). Due to gremlins in my comment box my comments are suffering from an inability to edit and correct. So, sorry for any errors or repeats of sentences. (as follows the end of this comment). Fi<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />rstly though, profound thanks to ServusmariaenRichard Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10826907710570316952noreply@blogger.com